159: Teach, Design, Market: A Journey Fueled by Mentorship

All right, it should be connected to LinkedIn now. You should see me live. So welcome everybody. I am so excited to be here with you and talking about the best advice I ever got or ever have received throughout my career as a teacher, instructional designer, director of growth marketing, working in corporate, working in higher ed, all the different things. So I'm here to share that advice with you. And hopefully, let me double check, make sure.

Yay, it's live on LinkedIn, woohoo. So happy for you to please engage and share things in the comments on the live on LinkedIn so that I can answer those. I will be keeping track of those so you see me kind of moving things back and forth. So if you see my eyes moving, I am still paying attention, but I am just getting ready for the live. And like I said, my LinkedIn took a minute.

there to connect. let's go ahead and get started. The first thing I want to do is share with you my journey and talk a little bit about what I've been doing over the past almost 20 years and working in various places, like I said, higher ed, corporate instructional design, higher ed instructional design, instructional technology.

Holly Owens (02:18.248)
And I really wanted to do this live or this session because I think it's important, especially with people who are in the job market right now, and they're thinking about making the leap to something new, especially the transitioning teachers, is to share some of the advice that I have received over the years. And one of the things I do want to point out

to is that it's not just one thing. It's really not just one thing that you do that really gets you your foot in the door or like there's a, there's just one thing that just makes all the problems go away and then there's a solution involved. So I want you to be prepared and strapped in and ready for a journey when you are transitioning into a new role, whether you've been in instructional design or learning and development for a long time or

if you're just starting out there. So little bit about my journey. I started my career out as a high school teacher in 2007. I graduated from the University of Maryland, Baltimore County. I am a native Melander, huge Orioles fan, and I have my BA in American studies, and then I got a certification in secondary education through the state, and I also have a minor in biology. I taught high school government.

for four years and then I decided I was going to start looking for something new and using my skills as an educator. So I transitioned when it wasn't the cool thing to do. So I transitioned from instructional, excuse me, a high school educator into a government contract role, which was an e-learning development. I had no idea what e-learning was at the time.

So I got to learn very quickly what that role was and kind of figure my way through. And I was developing, I was taking PowerPoint presentations and I was developing those into e-learning experiences. Nowadays, instructional designers or e-learning developers will be like, no, that is not a good way to develop learning experiences. So I was learning how to make different things move. I was recording audio. I was syncing it.

Holly Owens (04:42.83)
with the presentation. It was really like very basic stuff, but it led me to something greater, which was instructional design. So the six months I spent in government contracting really built the foundation for me and started the path into learning and development, specifically instructional design. So, you know, one of the things that I can say and I'm going to share, it's,

what the advice is that I got. It came from a very dynamic leader in the space, the person that was basically coaching me in how to do things properly with e-learning development, the tools that I was using, that kind of stuff. hi everybody. I see we've got Denver.

I'm just seeing the chat now, so that's awesome. I'm glad you all are here. So this leader was very much a mentor to me. And he would have these, so this is when I was the contractor. He would have our one-on-one sessions. And mind you, I was working in Northern Virginia at the time. So if you're from the DMV, you know it's like a cesspool of traffic all the time. So I was working in Northern Virginia.

And I was community about an hour and a half each way. And each week, this leader would have one-on-one sessions. And he did something really different. He would take us for walks. So we go for walks around the building. We wouldn't be sitting in an office, or we wouldn't be at that time. There wasn't a Zoom available. We had things like Yahoo Messenger, MSN Messenger, all that different stuff. And he would take us for walks and have conversations with us, deep conversations with how things were going.

and one time on this particular walk, you know, I was feeling a little bit, I put a lot of pressure on myself to be a great instructional designer, e-learning developer, whatever I do. I put a lot of pressure on myself. So he was asking me like, what's going on? Why do you seem, so stressed? Why are you, you know, you you're just like, your projects aren't getting finished. Like you, you seem like you're just not focused.

Holly Owens (07:07.822)
You know, and at the time I was just like, I just don't feel like I know what I'm doing. Like it takes like one to two years to kind of ingrain yourself fully in a role and understand. And I was trying to do that in less than six months. So as we're talking, you know, and I, I constantly have this even today in the back of my mind. And Betty Danowitz talks about this a lot on her, if you ask Betty podcast, imposter syndrome.

is prevalent in my mind. Like I know out there on LinkedIn world, you all see like this very confident Holly, like posting things and sharing resources and stuff. But a lot of the times I doubt myself and I doubt my abilities and my talent. I don't know where that all stems from. Could be childhood stuff, could be, you know, having toxic bosses, but I consistently doubt myself in terms of the work that I'm doing. So.

One of the things that he said to me, and I'll never forget this, and he didn't realize it at the time, and I didn't realize it at the time, profound, this was 2011, so this has stuck with me since then, is how much this one sentence impacted me as an L &D professional.

And he looked at me and I'm expressing all my concerns. Like I'm not doing this well, I'm not doing that well. Kind of just berating myself, like all the negative things coming out, saying I'm not good at this, not good at that. I'm still learning and I'm not giving myself grace. And then he looks at me and he goes, he says, Holly, like, yeah, such and such. He's like, I'm going to tell you something right now and you need to really listen to this. So he looks at me and he goes, Holly.

Talent recognizes talent. And I was like, I was like, you're most certainly not talking about me. And at the time I didn't see it in myself, but he obviously saw it in me and talent recognizes talent. He was telling me that he was confident in his abilities, but he saw me as a very young person starting out in L and D profession as somebody who was talented.

Holly Owens (09:31.726)
It literally changed the way that I was thinking about myself and it has stuck with me. this is the piece of, it wasn't necessarily advice, but it has stemmed into advice and things that I have done throughout my path to be a better instructional designer, to be a better learning and development professional. So talent recognizes talent. And I go back to that all the time.

I'm like, cause when I'm feeling like I'm not doing something well or I'm not doing enough or I'm, you know, I'm not giving the LinkedIn community or other communities what they need, or I'm not giving enough into my full-time role. The talent recognized talent takes me back and it takes me back to where I started and you know, going through the journey of where I am now. So the best advice that I ever received was the fact that

from a boss that mentored me, that supported me, that told me I was talented and believed in me is he did that in ways that I can't even repeat myself or deal with other people. I try to be a good mentor, but it was just in these subtle ways that he was so supportive. And one of the things I'll say is after that conversation,

He came to me a couple of weeks later and he said, Holly, he understood that that contracting role was not my last stop in terms of my career. So he came to me and he told me, he says, there's an opening for an instructional technology specialist at Northern Virginia Community College. You should apply. This sounds like something you would excel at. You would definitely do well here. So I applied, I interviewed.

I left the interview and not even 15 minutes later, my soon to be supervisor called me until mail ended the roll. It's crazy. So the advice is believing in yourself and what you can do and what you can accomplish. It just changes the trajectory of how you approach situations like job searching, how you approach situations like doing the interview process or how you approach situations like

Holly Owens (12:00.49)
doing a project on your current team. When people are telling you that, and they genuinely are saying they support you, they're not just saying it to say it, they genuinely support you, you can feel that. And this boss doesn't know it, I'm gonna text him after this live and tell him that he changed my life. He literally set me on a path that has led me to where I am today. And he can take credit for some of my success with those talent recognized talent.

So after instructional technology specialist, went into, I got recruited to Coppin State University as an instructional technologist. So I went into the university system in Maryland. So like I said, I'm a native Marylander. Then I went back to my alma mater, UMBC, and I worked as an instructional designer technologist there for a few years. And then I went to, I moved to Long Island, New York.

and I became an instructional designer with the Tor University, the School of Health Sciences in Bayshore, New York. So if there's anybody from Long Island, hi. I wrote the LER a lot. So if you know what that means, if you know, you know. And then I got my first promotion during that time. Just through building relationships, working with faculty, doing all the things that I knew how to do really well at this point, because I'm about...

six years into like learning and development. And I got promoted to the assistant director of instructional design or online learning. And I spent the next two years kind of learning the leadership role. And then my path took me elsewhere. I started working for an online program management company called Academic Partnerships is now RisePoint. So was a senior instructional designer there. And then you would think

as you're thinking about your career, like what's the top level thing that you think you could reach in terms of like, I've reached the Mecca, I've reached the top of the thing and I'm at the top. I can't go any higher, I've hit the glass ceiling. This is something where, like thinking about a company,

Holly Owens (14:27.67)
where you would say that to yourself that that's what you did. And I feel like a lot of people would answer like Amazon, they would answer Microsoft, Google, like those are the places that you go to reach the peak, right? So after I left academic partnerships, I got a job as an instructional designer at Amazon Pharmacy. I hear a lot of people

those that I coach talk about like, I want to be at Amazon or I want to be here. I want to be said, insert said fortune 500 large company, click gom or in here. And I went to Amazon and I got to learn the corporate side of instructional design. So not only do I know e-learning development at this point, I know higher education extremely well. I'm still teaching at this time as I'm matriculating through all these different roles and different jobs.

I was teaching in higher ed, been doing that since 2012, still doing it today. And then I landed Amazon. And you think like, this is the dream for people. They want to be at places like this because it's Amazon. Holy shit. Sorry. It's Amazon. So I go in there, I learn corporate instructional design. I'm on a great instructional design team. have a lot of

fun and engaging coworkers and we're doing different projects and like I'm going through, I'm creating simulations, I'm learning, you know, different tools, articulate, ice-spring, all these different things. And I'm like, you think when you achieve the dream, then you're satisfied. But I was not satisfied, which is weird to me because I know a lot of people who again, that role and I'm not trying to be like, like I'm not grateful.

they'd like, this is it for me. This is truly it for me. And mind you at this time too, besides teaching, I'm also doing the podcast. So I started the podcast in 2021. I'm kind of adding these little milestones. They're coming back to me as I'm talking about this. And at Amazon, I started to doubt myself because I had reached this level within say, it was probably 10 years of transitioning to learning and development. That's a little long.

Holly Owens (16:58.306)
But like, I still wasn't satisfied. I still wasn't like, okay, this is great. You know, I want to get promoted. I want to do all these different things. I can move to different apartments. And don't get me wrong, Amazon's great. There's a lot of, you don't realize how big Amazon is once you're inside of it. And pharmacy was awesome because I learned so many different things about, you know, customer care and how prescriptions work and.

how you can get your prescriptions delivered to your door, all different kinds of fun things. And they're still evolving. Like they do pet medications now, which is really cool. But I was just like, there's something in me is just not like, you know, clicking here. Like I feel like I'm doing a great job. I feel like I have, I've learned, developed a few more skills, but the talent recognizes talent thing was still like in the back of my mind. And I'm like, is this really it for me? So.

I kind of got the answer, or I did get the answer when Amazon decided to return to office. And I was like, I can't, I have to work remotely. I have aging grandparents, my mom, my sisters, I'm the center of my family. So I can't go to an office unless it's close by. And the offices that were close by were not close by. Austin, Boston, Seattle, and I wasn't moving there. I live in the Southeast.

So I was like, oh my gosh, what am I gonna do now? So I started freelancing a little bit, got some roles, doing some design work, and then I'm like, I love instructional design. I feel like at this point, I'm like mid-career, so it's time to get back. So I was doing that through the podcast, I was mentoring people, I was sharing all this advice out on LinkedIn World.

And that's where I feel the most fulfilled is out there and sharing and giving back. And I'm like, you know, I need health insurance. I need a stable job because contract roles aren't necessarily stable. So what am going to do now? So I'm like, then Sean Roy, the CEO and founder of Yellowdig, where I currently work, reached out to me and he's like, I know you're looking for a role. Wanted to see if you possibly want to join our team as a marketing specialist and a success manager.

Holly Owens (19:18.766)
I'm like, I didn't look for this role. I just want to say that. again, I'm not being cocky. I got this role because Shawnic had been on my podcast several times and he paid attention to what I was doing out on LinkedIn World. This is why I'm saying it's not just one thing. So he paid attention and he's like, I think you would be great. You could spend 50 % of your time kind of bringing that influencing in into the marketing realm.

And then you can also on the side over here, continue to do work in the L &D space by supporting faculty, supporting students in the success room. I'm like, this sounds like a dream. This sounds like something that it meets like a lot of different things that I'm interested in. So I went, I've been at Yellowdig for nine months now and I got promoted to the director of growth marketing. Mind you, I don't have a marketing background.

I mean, I've done this influencer stuff and I've done like marketing for my podcast, but I don't have official degree to all those marketing people who have degrees and they're great at what they do. I so get it now. It is a tough position. It is tough to keep up with all the trends and the different things. So I really look up to some of those people who are in the marketing realm and the things that have been doing it for a while. So here I am. And let's say

I left teaching in 2011 and it's 2025. So almost 15 years later, I am here as a director of growth marketing. And it's all because somebody saw something in me that I didn't at the time see in myself. I was full on imposter syndrome. I was like, I'm not good enough.

I don't know everything. If I don't know everything or I can't answer all the questions, and I think this is something that younger people do, I'm middle aged now, so I'm like, I can do this, is they don't have the confidence to kind of navigate or take the risk. I wish I had taken the risk when I was younger. Taking the risk and believing in myself the way that this supervisor did is something that

Holly Owens (21:41.63)
you cannot replace. When you believe in yourself and you're confident about your abilities. And if I think back and I want you to do the same, this is kind of turning into an inspirational speech, but you get what I'm saying here. Don't forget you started somewhere and everybody starts somewhere. Where are you at in the journey now? You're always moving forward.

So where are you at the journey now? Think back to where you were. And I think back to being in that e-learning development role and I'm like, I don't know how to do any of these things. I don't know how to sync audio. I don't know how to make things move on the screen. I definitely don't know the content, which was TriCare. I didn't really understand it, now I still remember it. I want you to, part of the reason I'm sharing this is because I want you to think back to where you were and where you are now. And

People that I've talked with recently feel very stuck, especially the transitioning teachers group. And I will say that it's not an easy transition and that it takes a lot of work to land a role in learning and development. And like I keep saying, it's not just one thing. And people who are saying it takes 600 hours or 30 hours or whatever amount of hours for you to transition out into something different, they're lying.

This is taking me years and other people influencers out on LinkedIn years to do. Luke Copson, you should get in touch or you should talk to him and read his book, What I Wish I Knew Before Coming An Instructional Designer. Other people, Heidi Kirby, Tim Slade. Like these people are people I idolize. Carl Kapp, Julie Dirksen. Like everybody has their own journey. And what you see on the screen,

is the person that's the brand that we want you to see. It is not without its struggles. So I really want to come on and say people who are looking to change roles or looking to get into the L &E profession or whatever profession, you first need to have confidence in yourself before you take that leap. And one of the things that I say the most when I'm in consulting meetings and stuff is that when you go

Holly Owens (24:11.63)
to a job interview and you're thinking about like, oh my gosh, you know, like, you're like, I have to perform, I have to tell them all this, I have to like, and then afterwards you have like, oh my God, I didn't say this, I didn't say that, so they're not gonna hire me. Just remember that you were interviewing that company or organization just as much as they're interviewing you. Like,

You want to go into that with good questions, get clarity around onboarding and some different things, and I'll do some more episodes about this. But you have the power too. Don't give them all the power because they don't have all the power. They're soliciting you, right? You put in your application, yes, but they're looking for you. So you have just as much power in the situation and you need to be confident that this is a place that you're going to fit as well.

because you don't want to get into a job that you don't like. And I've seen so many, so many, so many, and I've heard horror stories of transitioning teachers that they took the first thing and they took a pay cut because they just wanted to transition into the role. And then they were miserable. They were looking for a job, not even six months or less. They're like, this is terrible. I knew, and they say, they say to me, say, I knew I should have listened to what you said.

But I just wanted the money. I just wanted to get the title on my resume. But what are you sacrificing at that point? So the best advice that I ever got was is having somebody believe in me and me believing in myself in turn. And that translated into this unique, wild, roller coaster ride of a journey for me.

And the role that I'm sitting in now is something that I can definitely say was not on the plan list. It was something that is, it's wonderful and it's exciting and it's challenging and it's, I'm using all of my skills as a learning and development professional to connect with customers, to, you know, do different things that.

Holly Owens (26:30.22)
I didn't think instructional design and marketing were connected, but they are. So at the end of the day, LinkedIn, we're all in for those people listening or listening afterwards to this episode. I want you to have confidence in yourself starting from today. You will say, I have accomplished this, I've accomplished that. And it may not be all career related. It can be personally related as well. I ran a marathon. I completed this.

I have a great family, I have a loving partner, and think about your accomplishments. And go into these transitions with that confidence. And I'm gonna say this, your resume, your portfolio, your website, or whatever other professional materials that you put out there for the world, they're great, and they're always changing.

but that's not what's gonna land you a new role. It's gonna be you. It's gonna be your personality, how you can evolve in the role, how you present yourself, like how do you work with others, the authenticity of yourself, because you can't fake it till you make it in a role. It'll get figured out really fast. So at the end of day, you need to have confidence in yourself and remember, ultimately, that talent recognizes talent.

Thank you so much for coming to this live. I hope you enjoyed it. I'm going to be doing a lot more of these and I'm releasing them as podcast episodes. So please follow us right now. We're in the process of changing our domain. It's edupedtech.com. I also want to shout out our sponsors for this live, Yellowdig, where I currently work. Go check us out at yellowdig.com.

The yellow dig duck CEO, sorry. And then I spring solutions. I spring is in a lot that I do. I love their products. I love, I share their guides all the time. So please go check out, go to i spring solutions and check out their free trials. Some of their guys upcoming webinars, some that I'm going to be doing. Um, I'm going to have all of this in the show notes, but again, talent recognizes talent. And I hope that you find something that you're passionate about and that you love doing.

Holly Owens (28:51.406)
So have a great day everyone and we'll talk soon. Bye.